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Forums :: Dan Peek Fan Blog :: Heaven And Hell...Can You Feel It?

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Poster: King_of_Glass
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King_of_Glass Member Posts: 1745 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 07/30/2015 08:35 PM Hi S - The adapted lyrics to Dan's "Lonely People" was very cool. It's a perfect fit. Say, if as the Bible says, one day in heaven is equal to a thousand years on earth, I wonder what length of time it has felt like to Dan his being in heaven for four years? Where's my calculator??? Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** shasta Member Posts: 1643 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 07/31/2015 12:06 AM Well, KoG, my opinion is that Dan isn't very concerned about the "passage of time," anymore. It takes having one of these "tents" we currently meander around in, to be concerned about time and space. One of the verses I've been meditating on the last few days is, "My times are in Your hands," Psalms 31:15. No need to worry about the passage of time. God's got it ALL under control, and if I care to look, I can see His hand at work, concerning MY "times." P.S. I'd loan you my calculator. But it's acting weird again. My dad gave it to me and he's been gone 30 years. So it's quite old. But I just love it and don't want to have to throw it away. I won't ever get another calculator from my Daddy. Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** King_of_Glass Member Posts: 1745 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 07/31/2015 01:02 PM shastaWell, KoG, my opinion is that Dan isn't very concerned about the "passage of time," anymore. It takes having one of these "tents" we currently meander around in, to be concerned about time and space. Yes, S, that's correct. Dan isn't concerned about the passage of time. Those who have passed from this life to the next are now experiencing eternity where time no longer exists. I was just curious what length of time four years in heaven would seem like from our earthly standpoint. Still haven't broke out the calculator to figure it myself though. Remember how expensive a simple calculator was in the early 70s? Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** shasta Member Posts: 1643 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 08/01/2015 01:09 AM No, I actually do NOT remember how inexpensive a calculator was in the 1970's. I'm not numerical, but verbal. And the only calculator I've ever owned, was this one, given to me by my dad. Physically, Dan's doesn't "feel" anything. We feel because we have bodies. Currently, that's not his state. However, his soul (mind, will & emotions) as well as his spirit are alive and well. How much in tune they are with such earthly matters as the passage of time or questions of space/place (teehee) I don't know. I have a friend who died a number of years ago. He was hit in the head by a falling tree and he died on the operating table. His experiences with sights, sounds and overall well-being are vivid. He wanted to stay in heaven, but Jesus sent him back! Ross was disappointed that he couldn't stay in heaven, but he "obeyed." Thoughts, emotions, decision-making all seem to have been in tact and his to control. As I reread your post, I realize you are looking at the amount of time Dan has spent in heaven, from an earthly perspective. If that's the perspective, then the question is: We've been without Dan for 4 years DOWN HERE. I wonder how that feels to him in heaven? Doncha think? Or am I splitting hairs? Get out your calculator. I'm curious as to what the readout will be! Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** King_of_Glass Member Posts: 1745 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 08/01/2015 01:00 PM S - I disagree concerning those who have passed on to the next life not feeling anything just because they no longer have their earthly bodies. In Luke 16:24, it states: "And he [the rich man] cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus [the beggar], that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame." After all, isn't that what Hades/Hell is all about ... feeling torment and separation both physically and spiritually? Conversely, those in Paradise/Heaven are experiencing total joy. And, surely if the rich man is requesting that Lazarus the beggar dip the tip of his finger in water, Lazarus would have been able to feel the water on his fingertip just like the rich man would have been able to feel the cool water on his tongue, no? Regarding the other matter, if one day is equal to a thousand years to the Lord, then I say Dan's being in Heaven for these past four years has felt roughly like only 5 to 6 minutes to him based on my calculations. If anyone has a different answer, I welcome theirs! Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** shasta Member Posts: 1643 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 08/01/2015 03:23 PM And a Good Morning to You, KoG! God is GOOD! Because I made a very difficult decision, I was home to receive a great blessing this morning; one of my classmates invited me to the fitness center, as her guest! I swam and swam in their saltwater pool, luxuriated in their hottub and then swam some more and just floated in that salt water! Took a long, hot shower, washed my hair and then she treated me to a fresh-made smoothie and fresh-baked blueberry scone! Oh, how I love scones! I'll look up the verse this conversation has me meditating on. Revelation 6:9-11. You can read it yourself. Perhaps I'm pulling in a verse that creates confusion, and I DESPISE confusion. God is a God of order, after all. But nevertheless, I've been chewing on these verses and wondering what state of existence the people were in. It says they were "souls," not bodies. And yet they were given "long, flowing and festive white robes" and "souls" don't need to be clothed! They had voices, because they used them. But they were told to "rest and wait patiently a little while longer," and ALL parts of our triune beings (body, soul and spirit) need rest. Hmmm. But you make good points! In I Thess. 4:13-18 we have the other verses I am thinking of. Again, you can read them yourself. For emphasis: those who are dead are really "asleep." During sleep, the physical senses operate. The mind and emotions function to a degree. Not so sure about the will. Not sure what the spirit is doing either. It's certainly available to influence from EITHER kindgom. (Actually I kinda like that misspelling!) I wonder what a "gom" is! But until the body is awakened, there isn't purposeful interaction with what's around us. Hmmm. Five or 6 minutes. Hmmm. Time flies, especially when you're having FUN, and there's no better fun to be had than in the presence of God! I Cor. 2:9, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love Him." EEEEHAW! Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** King_of_Glass Member Posts: 1745 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 08/01/2015 04:21 PM shastaIn I Thess. 4:13-18 we have the other verses I am thinking of. Again, you can read them yourself. For emphasis: those who are dead are really "asleep." During sleep, the physical senses operate. The mind and emotions function to a degree. Not so sure about the will. Not sure what the spirit is doing either. It's certainly available to influence from EITHER kindgom. (Actually I kinda like that misspelling!) I wonder what a "gom" is! But until the body is awakened, there isn't purposeful interaction with what's around us. Hmmm. Good afternoon, S: 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 first. It reads: "13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words." These words are pertaining to the yet-to-come event known as the Rapture, correct? The mention of the word "asleep" is merely referring to those who have died which I know you know because you stated so. Anyway, I'm confused why you mention the verses above in reference to whether a departed person can feel in the next life. Perhaps you can clarify for me. Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** King_of_Glass Member Posts: 1745 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 08/01/2015 06:54 PM S - Since the time of my previous posting on this thread, I have been studying what you posted. You said: "In I Thess. 4:13-18 we have the other verses I am thinking of. Again, you can read them yourself. For emphasis: those who are dead are really "asleep." During sleep, the physical senses operate." So, are you actually in agreement with me? Since you said that during sleep, the physical senses operate, it sounds like you are saying the departed (those who are "asleep") would, after all, have physical senses which the sense of touch/feeling is one of them. Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** shasta Member Posts: 1643 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 08/02/2015 12:48 AM Clarification, schlarification - at this time of night, KoG? You're asking me to think and to clarify??? TeeHee. Let me warn you about my mentality. I'm one of those people who associates everything with everything. Sometimes I accidentally pull in ideas that I end up tossing, because I realize later that they don't pertain. But I have to pull it ALL in, in order to weed out the non-pertainers. And I also will start from a place of complete contradiction in order to move towards agreement! A little something I learned about myself in 2001 during my counseling training. So bear with me, please. Keep slapping me with new verses and questions. It will help me to formulate a cohesive theology on the subject! Do I agree or disagree? Tomorrow. I can barely see right now. I'm tired. Oh! I can answer this: Yes, the physical senses operate. But without a body to respond and interact with the environment, they're rather in a dormant state, don't you think? I remember when my father was dying and I KNEW he was in discomfort. I learned too late that I should have been moving him around in bed, so his blood wouldn't settle in one area and cause bruising. The hospice nurse didn't tell me. So he knew he was in pain, even though he was in a coma. But he couldn't TELL me and he couldn't do anything about it himself. Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** King_of_Glass Member Posts: 1745 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 08/02/2015 03:24 AM Hi S - I'm tired, too. It's 1:25 AM so I'll look for your reply on Sunday. I went to see a country music band - RICOCHET - this evening (Saturday) at the county fair. It was very good, but it got cut short due to rain. Good night/good morning! Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** shasta Member Posts: 1643 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 08/02/2015 01:30 PM Brrrrrrrrrrrrrring! (That's the alarm clock going off! Are you awake yet, KoG? The first thing zipping around in my head this morning is the Transfiguration, where Peter, James and John saw Moses and Elijah meet with Jesus on the mountaintop and they heard them talking. Matt. 17:1-8. Now Elijah never died, II Kings 2:11. The only other person I know of that this happened to was Enoch, Gen. 5:22 & Heb. 11:5, the faith chapter. Interesting is that Enoch lived 365 years, and we count 365 days in a year! Moses died without entering the Promised Land, because of his disobedience. But God buried him and even though they searched, the people could NOT find his body! Deut. 34:4-6. So we've got examples of 2 people who hadn't walked the planet for thousands of years, appearing in bodily form. One had left this life supernaturally and the other, naturally. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says our bodies are made of dirt and at death, our spirits leave the body and the body returns to the dirt it was made of. Blasted coffins foul up that natural process!!! I Cor. 5:3 says, that while living, we are able to be present with others, "in spirit," despite NOT being in their physical presence. I've experienced this many times. Now here is the monkey wrench. I just LOVE monkey wrenches! They're big and ugly, but very strong! James 2:26 says that without the body we are, "lifeless," the same as faith without works is, "dead." So, we will run these notions around in our little finite minds for awhile and see what comes next, eh? I haven't checked out Bing, Bing, Bing, Ricochet Rabbit yet, but I will. Glad you enjoyed the concert. It's a huge disappointment to go to all the trouble of attending something like that and then NOT like it! I'm glad you got some rain. I'm sure you guys need it down there. Thunder and lightning woke me up, I don't know, 1 or 2 a.m. I'm sure we've got more fires burning now. It's overcast and hazy this morning. Temps are down, humidity is up. But the clouds are gonna burn off and it will get warm. Then we'll see how much is clouds and how much is smoke. Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** King_of_Glass Member Posts: 1745 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 08/02/2015 04:31 PM shastaJames 2:26 says that without the body we are, "lifeless," the same as faith without works is, "dead." Good afternoon S: You quoted three different verses but didn't specifically tie them to why the sense of touch/feeling would be absent following death according to what you believe. As a matter of fact, one of the quotes, James 2:26, you quoted incorrectly. It's without the spirit that the body is lifeless as correctly quoted here: "For as the body without the SPIRIT is dead, so faith without works is dead also." You said the verse states that without the BODY we are lifeless. It actually is that without the SPIRIT (as pertaining to the body), we are lifeless. In other words, it is the spirit that is actually alive in each living person. When the spirit leaves the body (as what happens at the time of one's death), you and I as Christians believe each person's spirit goes to one of two places which is either heaven or hell. I contend all physical senses (sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch) continue on. You are contending that the sense of touch/feeling no longer exists without a body, correct? Let's just look at this subject very simply. You said you had a friend who had a severe head injury and died. To quote you: "His experiences with sights, sounds and overall well-being are vivid. He wanted to stay in heaven, but Jesus sent him back!" Okay, your friend went to heaven without his body, right? Yet, without a body you said he still experienced sights and sounds which are two of the five senses. Why then was he able to have this experience without a body? If your logic is: without a body one is not able to experience the sense of touch, why then as with your friend who died and went to heaven was he able to still have his senses of sight and hearing? As I had mentioned yesterday concerning the rich man and Lazarus the beggar, the rich man was asking for Lazarus to be permitted to dip his fingertip (the body part we use to touch/feel) in water and place it on the rich man's tongue (the body part we use for taste)? Again (to follow your logic), without a body in the afterlife, a person loses the sense of touch/feeling yet you believe that without a body a person is able to retain the senses of sight and hearing. WHAT??? How is that logical? Okay, your turn, :) Edited by King_of_Glass on 08/02/2015 04:33 PM Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** shasta Member Posts: 1643 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 08/02/2015 05:46 PM Oh! This is getting to be FUN, KoG! Keep my wheels turning! You are correct. I misquoted James 2:26. Thank you for setting me straight. Mornings, you know? Foggy brain is more like it. Now a thought occurs to me; it's the body that enables us to interact with the environment around us, right? The senses are still active in the spirit, because it's the spirit that gives life. But I think, based on Ross' experience, that down here where time and space constrain us, without a body, we cannot interact. Time and space as we know it do not exist in heaven. Therefore, despite not having a body, we CAN interact with the environment of heaven. Hmmm. No I didn't specifically link the verses to this discussion. But somehow I feel they pertain. It's just gonna take time and the Spirit of God to make the connections! I forget how to bring in a quote from another post! How do you do that! I wanted to quote your explanation and question, "How is that logical?" Of course it wasn't the LEAST bit logical. But it took someone else, like you, to point out how I was reasoning, in order for me to see the fallacy! Thank you again! I have no more offerings for now. Been watching Revival videos. Had some light rain, which was refreshing. Now the sun's trying to break through (like you're trying to break through my fuzzy thinking?) and dispel the clouds/smog. Keep trying!!! Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** King_of_Glass Member Posts: 1745 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 08/02/2015 07:34 PM shastaOf course it wasn't the LEAST bit logical. But it took someone else, like you, to point out how I was reasoning, in order for me to see the fallacy! Thank you again! S - I see an "f" word..."fallacy"! So, am I to assume I finally got through? I'm not sure because you also said at the very end of your posting to, "Keep trying!!!" Please let it be the former, and hopefully, your latter comment is for future fallacies if any. Edited by King_of_Glass on 08/02/2015 07:37 PM Back to top Back to top Quote Quote ********************************************************************** shasta Member Posts: 1643 Re: It's the 24th July Down Under Posted on: 08/02/2015 10:32 PM I'm about to go out for my evening walk, KoG. Too smokey to swim and too cool. Hopefully there isn't any ash in the air. Smoke from forest fires I can handle. But the ash? Nope. No. I don't think you're done with me yet on this topic. You've convinced me on a point or two - proving that my argument thus far is wrong or at best, incomplete. You need to keep trying!!! We need a new name for this. You choose and set it up. **********************************************************************

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