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Forums :: Dan Peek Fan Blog :: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?

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bluey
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Posts: 2626
From: 2500 plus Posts is just an illusion.

Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/04/2013 10:20 AM



Is this America's best R&R song? It's just a question amongst us fans and friends.
If you have a better choice, please by all means have your say. I just never tire of hearing it. And it's terrific that G&D continue to play the song to this day.


Bluey.
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bluey
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Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/04/2013 10:33 AM

Heard this song today. Haven't heard in awhile. Dan, Dewey & Gerry wrote some amazing songs. Just beautiful harmonies.

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shasta
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Posts: 1901

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/04/2013 02:04 PM

Good Morning Bluey! Oh, boy, you've opened up a can of worms for me, personally! I just don't think I can say that thus-and-such song is "the best." Dan, Dewey and Gerry have such different styles, and therefore songs. After listening to my "arsenal," I've come up with a short list of 25 songs, and five of those weren't written by America! I've got several of those that I can consider personal favorites.

But you were looking at Musikladen and that show was packed with good rockers, and most of them were written by Dewey. If I had to say which one of the 3 wrote the most, the best, I'd say Dewey. But Dan left a long time ago and we really never heard what he would've written if he'd stayed with the group - as far as R & R is concerned. For another comparison, Gerry probably has the least "knock-me-dead songs" in the rock & roll vein. But, don't get me wrong! I LOVE Gerry's music. I just don't think (what I would call)straight rock & roll is his cup of tea. Dan crossed over into country. Dewey crosses over into jazz and even folk. Gerry just plain crosses, but particularly into pop. Three very versatile and talented men!!! So I think I will enjoy the mental exercise of paring my list down!

So, all that to say, lemme think on this some more and I'll get back to you on this topic! I took notes as I listened to songs. But I'm not going to string out a list of 25 songs here!
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Americafan
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Posts: 337

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/05/2013 02:57 PM

California Revisited is certainly one of their best rockers, especially the live version on the Musikladen CD/DVD.

Dan had several good rockers including Its Life, In the Country, Half a Man, Jet Boy Blue, and Hurricane. Plus One Way from his first solo album is a classic CCM rocker.
Mark
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Godot
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Posts: 312
From: Down the path along side the lake.

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/06/2013 03:43 AM

bluey

Is this America's best R&R song? It's just a question amongst us fans and friends.
If you have a better choice, please by all means have your say. I just never tire of hearing it. And it's terrific that G&D continue to play the song to this day.


Bluey.


bluey, I was going to say, "no", and then list my 2 favorites. Instead, I played the link.

For me, hard to dispute that this musikladen is not their best 'live' R&R song. Not my, personal, favorite, but it has all the necessary elements of a classic.




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bluey
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From: 2500 plus Posts is just an illusion.

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/06/2013 06:41 AM

It's certainly powerful Godot. If the same line-up was still with us, I'd sell my house to go and see another Musikladen concert. Same place. Same songs.

How about the energy coming out of this one......




Bluey.
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shasta
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Posts: 1901

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/06/2013 11:12 AM

Good Morning Godot! I lament to say that you rearranged my thinking on how I was going to respond - as you are so good at doing!!! There will be a longer delay before I can adequately submit my choices, because you made the distinction between "best" and "favorite." Life is indeed hard.

So, back to ye olde drawing board, teehee, teehee, teehee!!!
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Americafan
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Posts: 337

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/07/2013 07:41 PM

Musicladen is their best "live" performance. They should have released a live album with performances like this back when they at their commercial peak in the 70s. I think it would have been a big hit if they had.

Mark
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shasta
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Posts: 1901

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/08/2013 01:31 AM

Hello Everybody! This has been a most difficult task, but very enjoyable. Difficult because I can't get my list pared down. Enjoyable because it gave me a "count" if you will of how many rock & roll songs America has written. And I'm going to limit my list to written by America, not outsiders. If there's a collaboration, o.k. So I'm sad to say I won't count anything on the "Heard" album, and I love those songs. I won't count anything written by Russ Ballard, and musically-speaking, there are some really good ones. Don't like his lyrics, however. And I won't count "Mitchum Junction" and "How Long Must This Go On," just because Dewey never felt they were finished.

I shall do this in installments. First installment? "Sister GH." That's my number one, edging out "Everyone I Meet is From California," because I feel it's a complete package deal: good melody, good rhythm, good arrangement AND what puts it over the top is the vocal harmonies. The harmonies are tighter than "California" and I prefer hearing tight harmonies - probably built on 3rds instead of 4ths or 5ths. "Sandman" and "California" come next. That's the current rendition of "Sandman," by the way. The original is less rocky and has definite American Indian themes in it, which I just love. But these two are very good. Again, I maybe prefer "Sandman" because of the vocal harmonies that the song lends itself to.

That's it for now. Gotta figure out how to organize the rest of them!!!
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DaveB2
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Posts: 436

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/08/2013 08:02 AM

Cal Revisited on Homecoming has to be the best rocker but the acoutstic version is great along with Dewey's on Hourglass. But I would say this is number one and I do like all the rockiers tunes that were mention by americafan especially Jet Boy Blue - Hideaway had one from each Don't Let it get you down (Dewey) and she's a liar (gerry) - The rockier toons are more Dewey's bag but I do agree SGH is probably their best now upbeat tune. For Gerry I like Now She's gone and the Here and Now Look at me now along with always love... but Dewey has chipped in the most and Sandman is awesome not to mention several others but to me the hidden rocker gem from him is Hell's on fire
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shasta
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Posts: 1901

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/08/2013 12:52 PM

Good Morning Everyone! INSTALLMENT #2, maybe. I've decided, for better or for worse, to organize this chronologically, or period of rock. Admittedly, I'm REALLY ignorant about the different movements in rock. But I'm going to wing it anyway. Anybody wanna fine-tune my understanding, have at it!!! And these won't be in any numerical order, from mostest favorite down to leastest favorite. They're just favorites.

"Dream Come True" I would expect to hear on American Bandstand in the late 50's. Absolutely LOVE it! "Love on the Vine" has a cool 50-ish sound on the chorus. Absolutely LOVE it! "My Kinda Woman" has a Beach Boy, early 60-ish sound to it. Absolutely LOVE it! "Survival" with its country-esque rock sound from the 60's. Absolutely LOVE it! "Political Poachers" I put here because of its Beach Boy/Association vocal (bong, bong, bong) in the middle. I'm partial to tongue twisters also! Absolutely LOVE it!

O.K. That's it for this installment! Absolutely LOVE it!

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Godot
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Posts: 312
From: Down the path along side the lake.

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/08/2013 05:58 PM

bluey It's certainly powerful Godot. If the same line-up was still with us, I'd sell my house to go and see another Musikladen concert. Same place. Same songs.

How about the energy coming out of this one......




Bluey.


bluey and shasta, that is an amazing rendering of the song. I especially like the dueling pianos with Dan and Gerry near the end.

"Rainbow Song" is my favorite from Hat Trick. I personally believe that had it been the first song chosen to be aired from Hat Trick, America would have truly had their hat trick, and, "Rainbow Song" would have been a hit. Leading with "Muskrat Love", in my opinion, caused casual fans of America to forgo this otherwise great album.

Edited to say, the title of the song could have been a bit more creative. Perhaps, "Asleep On A Rainbow"?


Edited by Godot on 11/08/2013 06:10 PM
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bluey
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From: 2500 plus Posts is just an illusion.

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/08/2013 08:37 PM

Godot a bit more creative. Perhaps, "Asleep On A Rainbow"?


I like that G. Although I have been a fan since the beginning, my biggest regret is not seeing them as a trio when they toured here in the early 70s. I was stationed in the country and just couldn't get down to Sydney. Of course I have seen them a number of times (7 or 8) since but without Dan. I'm positive Dan told me that he visited here after leaving the band and did a couple of small venues in Melbourne. I can't remember Sydney being mentioned. Tom Peek might know about that.

I told Dan about Ray Davies (The Kinks) touring here with his very successful "The Storyteller" one man show. Ray talked about his life, played a lot of acoustic Kinks hits and answered audience questions. I said that it would be great seeing him doing a similar tour. He was very interested but of course he needed a promoter. What could have been?

Thanks everyone for your imput. Mark's "Rockers" thread on the America blog is creating interest as well. Great to see fans getting involved.

Bluey.


Edited by bluey on 11/09/2013 03:59 AM
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bluey
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From: 2500 plus Posts is just an illusion.

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/08/2013 08:45 PM

shasta First installment? "Sister GH." That's my number one, edging out "Everyone I Meet is From California," because I feel it's a complete package deal: good melody, good rhythm, good arrangement AND what puts it over the top is the vocal harmonies. The harmonies are tighter than "California" and I prefer hearing tight harmonies - probably built on 3rds instead of 4ths or 5ths.


Just for you Ellen


Edited by bluey on 11/08/2013 08:46 PM
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bluey
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Posts: 2626
From: 2500 plus Posts is just an illusion.

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/09/2013 11:27 AM


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shasta
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Posts: 1901

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/09/2013 12:14 PM

My gosh, Guys! I just checked and I'm over here all by my little self with you BOYS! Anita and Cacilie have participated over on America's blog. Well, Bluey, you started it here, and I'm here to stay, I guess! Anyhow, I have company this weekend, a girlfriend since kindergarten. So I'm not sure how much I can blab today and tomorrow.

In the meantime, Godot, "Rainbow Song" is really fun to watch, off Musikladen, because of the driving piano/organ "battle" at the end. Gerry plays such a simple organ part at the beginning. Even at that age, he knew better than to clutter things up. I love Dewey's horn imitation too! So this is an introduction to Installment #3? I think.

"Never Be Lonely," is such a Beatle song! Not into the Beatles, but I like the way the lyrics fit the music. I like the lyrics, period. Good rocker. "Don't Let it Get You Down," is another Dewey rocker. (TeeHee, he's gonna be a swingin' "rocker" when we're 80 and sitting IN rockers!) Anyhow, it's a driving, 60-ish song. "Windwave" is another 60-ish rocker that I like.

I came to the conclusion during my little etude here that Dewey and Gerry very strongly reflect the 60's music style that we grew up with. Not surprising, but Gerry in particular, crosses over into slightly different genres so much that I was surprised by this discovery!

Musically-speaking, Musikladen is a superior offering. But the guys were sleepwalking through the performance, with very different interaction between them than what they have today. I sense indifference or tension between them. Dan confronts Gerry about the "interesting harmonies in the middle, there" on "Lonely People." Dan asks "Where's my cigarette," so he could hold it while they performed "Tin Man," and nobody answers him. Gerry just starts playing! Then Dewey asks for a sip of Gerry's beer, puts it down at the far end of the stage, Gerry asks for his beer back, "please," and Dewey just ignores him. Gerry has to walk across the stage to get the thing! Is this just normal testosterone-pecking-order stuff, or does it reflect the tension that was already there in the band??? Dan says in his book that they were all fried by that point, after touring with no David Dickey and probably consuming a bunch of "stuff" they shouldn't have been consuming. So I can't say I enjoy watching the performance. But the songs are good and I enjoy watching who does what part on the guitars or keyboards.

Byeeeeeeeeeeeee. Gotta cook breakfast!
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jimnak
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Posts: 314
From: Huntington Beach CA.

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/10/2013 12:19 AM


That Musikladen is a great display of the artistic craftmanship that is embodied in GERRY & DEWEY's on stage persona. Look at DEWEY on RAINBOW SONG, he is an artist on a cloud, just acting naturally, uninhibited.
Have you seen GERRY play SISTER GOLDEN HAIR & SURVIVAL on the Midnite Special ? GERRY is the classiest & most artistic performer on Earth, He appears to play the guitar so effortlessly, like air guitar, except that he really is playing his very difficult 12 string. His vocals come out silky smooth & without obligations.
AMERICA the classiest show on Earth !
jim
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shasta
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Posts: 1901

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/10/2013 05:14 PM

Hello There Jimnak! Musically-speaking, Musikladen is very good. I still feel the presentation, as far as interaction between the guys and rapport (or lack thereof) with the audience is lacking. And I realize it wasn't a live audience or else they were all asleep! But I enjoy watching it because it gives me somewhat of an insight into how the 3 interacted. It gives a great picture of their ability to power through their songs, no matter what was going on. That's professionalism, and America's got it!

As for "SGH" and "Survival" on the Midnight Special? Yes, I've watched those several times. Quite a difference in Gerry between the two. On "SGH" judging from their bassist and the presence of a ring on Gerry's finger, he felt on top of his game. Look at the difference in facial expressions between the two songs! He was a happy camper in "SGH" and looked to me like he wanted to cry in "Survival." No ring, and different bassist, indicating it was 1982. 'Nough said.

America is incredibly talented, incredibly resilient, incredibly professional, incredibly persevering. But they are human beings! They go through wonderful times, terrible times, illnesses, screwed-up plans and have to deal with character faults in themselves and others - just like the rest of us. Sometimes they don't do so well, just like me. Sometimes they do very well, just like me. Sometimes they're somewhere in-between, just like me. Their "facon de vivre," is an encouragement to me. But I'm real careful to not attach the label "perfect" because I think that's unkind. Inadvertantly it puts unrealistic expectations on them and they have MORE than enough real expectations just because their business is in the public eye. I think Gerry and Dewey would be the first to admit that they are NOT perfect and that they've screwed up royally from time to time. We all screw up, and it's not a question of how many times you've screwed up. It's far more a question of how you've reacted and what you've learned from each screw up! This is perhaps where I have gained the most respect for them, as I've scoured the videos, articles, interviews and reviews on America to kinda get an idea of how they've grown up in the last 43 years. Perfect? No. Obvious progress and maturation? Yes!!!
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shasta
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Posts: 1901

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/11/2013 02:20 PM

Installment #4, I think. "Green Monkey." Those interesting Dewey lyrics. A good rocker, whether I understand the words or not! "Slow Down." Don't care for the lyrics, but I think maybe this is Dan's very best solo during his time with America. He shines on this one! "She's a Liar," again don't like the lyrics. The Hideaway and Harbor albums just don't make it, lyrically-speaking, for me. At any rate, the song is a good rocker. "Moon Song," again don't like the lyrics. Am I getting repetitive here??? But the song paints a clear picture in my mind of cold, dreary England and their teenage attempts to brighten life up a bit.
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shasta
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Posts: 1901

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/16/2013 12:33 AM

Hi Guys! Time for installment #Last, I believe!

Part A: "Border" and "Hangover." Love 'em both. I'm glad they play "Border" every or nearly every concert. Wish they'd play "Hangover" more often.

Part B: "Woman Tonight." It stands alone because the style is so different from any of their other songs. Love the herky-jerky rhythm. Love the instruments. I'd like to hear Dewey solo the second verse, though. He and Gerry blend together beautifully on harmony, but not on unison. (Sorry Guys). In a 1975-ish video I found, Dewey solos on the 2nd verse and does a nice job. I call it "The Bubble Song."

Part C: "Cornwall Blank/Hollywood." Really good rockers. Dewey's kinda psychedelic lyrics that I just can't grab ahold of. But musically-speaking, they are both tremendous. "Hollywood" kinda crosses over into jazz.

I failed. This isn't Installment #Last. There's gotta be one more. Manana - maybe.
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shasta
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Posts: 1901

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/18/2013 06:25 PM

Installment #5, and I most profusely apologize to you all that this isn't the last. A funny thing happened last night as I was proofing lyrics. I found 2 songs that I hadn't paid much attention to before. They grabbed ahold of me and I played them over and over again.

"High in the City," has a 5th Dimension-Beach Boys cross sound to it. Love the 5th Dimension for their rich vocal harmonies. I thought the way Gerry and Dewey alternated vocals, even switching from one to the other in the middle of a line, is really creative! Kudos for a great song!

"Hot Town," has a 60-ish, rhythm & blues sound to it. Dewey has an interesting vocal. I suspect (just my suspicions, you know) that IF he had styled his vocal with more grunge, the song would've had more "appeal," that is, for those who wouldn't know a good vocal from a frog croaking! Dewey balances a fine voice with some grunge mixed in and it's an interesting tight line he draws. Since I prefer "nice" vocals, this one is a winner in my book!

Another day I'll hopefully draw a conclusion to my choices!!!
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bluey
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Posts: 2626
From: 2500 plus Posts is just an illusion.

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/20/2013 01:21 AM

"Hot Town" amazingly one of only three songs that have female backing vocals. Very catchy. Just a pity that Dewey never did a solo album.

Some artists are governed by their producers. I remember Russell Hitchcock (Air Supply) saying that they loved playing R&R but Arista wanted the loved ballads....and I suppose that's where their many hits came from.


Bluey.
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shasta
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Posts: 1901

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/20/2013 11:16 AM

Good Morning Bluey! Yes, producers really have a powerful influence on groups. Out of the 3 major producers America worked with (just my opinion as to who's "Major.") I can say they all shaped America. Ian Samwell is the most important for America, because he established the foundation that still supports them today: acoustic styling, good vocals and nice harmonies. Russ Ballard was major, but I don't think he did much for the group, in terms of sales. Perhaps he gets a bad rap. The music industry was going through major changes before his tenure with America, and during. If I like a group, I want to hear from them, and Russ Ballard took over. George Martin was major and the guys give him a lot of credit for their character development. That's part of why they're still out there today. Musically-speaking, I don't care for his style. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't want to hear orchestral arrangements in folk music, country music or rock music. I want to hear the pure art form.

From everything I've read, record labels were even more influential, in that they dictated what type of music the groups would write and perform. Chicago states they had to switch from their early stylings to more ballads. America from the beginning could go either way, but I know the labels tried to dictate to them also. I think the labels saw the writing on the wall early on that they were going down the tubes and it was their last-ditch effort to save their hides. Greed? Perhaps it was their selfish effort to rake in big profits! In that case, I must say, GOOD that they went belly-up! Perhaps if they hadn't been exploiting their talented groups, both the labels AND the groups would've gone farther!
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bluey
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Posts: 2626
From: 2500 plus Posts is just an illusion.

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/20/2013 04:37 PM

Yes, the 60s was a very bad example of producer exploitation. When we saw the Ray Davies' (The Kinks) one man show called "The Storyteller" around 1990, he told the audience that he was still going through legal process with UK record companies for Kinks royalties, some 30 years later.

The only performer that I was aware of, at that time, that had total control over everything was Dave Clark (drummer with The Dave Clark Five). Other artists including John Lennon and Paul McCartney sought his advice.

Here's their first international hit ~




Bluey.
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shasta
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Posts: 1901

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/20/2013 08:00 PM

Yes, Bluey, and what blew me away was Tom Peek's comment (somewhere on this site) that HE can't even get some of his own songs released, that Dan performed/recorded! Now that is just plain WRONG - no two ways about it! If you write it, you need to have the rights to the song. That's just a perfect example of greed or exploitation. As Gerry said, "The labels got what was coming to them." Right on!

Then I have to ask the question: Where was management in those negotiations? Or perhaps the lawyers who are supposed to be negotiating on behalf of their artist clients? They shouldn't put up with junk like that. Unless, they're getting a cut of the action, which brings up exploitation again. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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shasta
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Posts: 1901

Re: Is This America's Best Rock & Roll Song?
Posted on: 11/25/2013 05:29 PM

Good Afternoon Bluey! All right, the FINAL installment that absolutely NOBODY's been holding their breath for!

"My Dear." Tonally, a very different song, but very effective vocals by Dewey. It's kinda disco-ish with some psychedelia mixed in. Nice background vocals also.

"On Target." This is also kinda disco-ish, but melodically (especially on the chorus) it's pop. Love those minor chords again!

"Mirror to Mirror." This is also kinda disco-ish. Am I being repetitive? Oh well. Love the lyrics and how they fit so nicely with the music.

"Hidden Talent." This is also kinda disco-ish. Sorry for the repetition. Gerry's vocals transport the song into the pop realm. But, his vocals are perfectly executed.

Somewhere on the forum I've said I have a strong aversion to disco. But I must say that what America has offered up from that genre is really good. They make it palatable for me!
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